S2E7: Tech, Trade & Trust: India–Netherlands and the Long Game ft. Ewout De Wit

Are we going to put our eggs in the India basket or are we putting it in the US basket? >> Now leading the Netherlands, South India push across innovation, trade. Welcome Abut. >> How does Netherland become one of the top places for Indian founders to partner with? They have their largest innovation center in the world here in Bangalore. They are committed. They say India is at the forefront of uh digital government. >> One policy change that would unlock the next $1 billion in corridor trade.

>> A more formalized collaboration between the six IITs in India and uh some of our technical universities in the Netherlands. >> What would you say in favor of India? >> So they do innovation in Bangalore in Bangalore >> and they have a GCC like structure in Chennai. >> Uh how do you see different states play out when it comes to semiconductors today? The Netherlands has a unique ecosystem on semiconductors with the whole sector and there we rely a lot on Indian talent driving to produce [music]

the first chips uh made in India. If Dutch founders had to hire one role first in India, what role do you think it would be? [music] Hiring still feels risky, [music] not because talent is scarce, but because decisions are fragile. What if hiring work like engineering, clear signals, documentary reasoning, defensible outcomes? [music] Because when hiring is a strategic risk, it deserves infrastructure. This series is sponsored by Ratchai, making hiring decisions predictable and outcomes aligned. This show is brought to you by

CRUDs, [music] your partner in digital transformation. From cloud innovation to intelligent automation, we redefine enterprise growth, empowering organizations to shape the future with technology [music] that thinks ahead. Hello everyone, my name is Abay Tandan and welcome to yet another episode of the innovators and disruptors podcast. As always, the focus would be a conversation where we can derive value for founders and builders from India and the world and how they can figure out synergies together. And to talk about

the subject, we have a global expert, a global leader who's joining us today, Ivit. Thank you so much. I is the council general of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in Bangaluru covering South India. A career diplomat since 1998. He served at the Netherlands permanent presentation to NATO in Brussels in Egypt and later as policy coordinator for the Gulf at the MFA in the hag before moving to Abuja as deputy head of mission and now leading the Netherlands south India push across innovation trade water aggregate and health partnerships as well. Welcome Abu.

>> Thank you Abhai. Thank you. Great to be here. >> So lovely to be hosting you today. it would when when I think about a council general you know in most people's mind you think about visas you think about flags and so on and so forth right but as a council general who's and who's very well traveled across the globe what are certain key things uh that your job description requires you to think about right are they are they deals are they partnerships are they crossber value what are some key KPIs that you think is is the most relevant

>> so I'm very happy I'm not daily involved in visa [laughter] that's a different business. So no as the console general of the Netherlands here in South India my main job is to try to um bring Dutch and Indian private sector together academia together um we have a a slogan as the Netherlands solving global challenges together and that is what we try to do. So um on the one hand we are trying to help Dutch companies find opportunities in South India, find partners in South India, find business investment uh helping them uh connect uh and and see what the opportunities are.

Um we are bringing um research together. Uh I have a team that's involved in innovation. uh we do sometimes joint calls with Indian government but we also try to bring a private sector that's doing research uh together and then finally also of course we're looking for high value Indian companies that want to expand into Europe uh and then look whether they would be a fit for the Netherlands uh and have something that would add to our economy that's my main business I do a little bit of visa I do a little bit of uh assisting Dutch citizens in need that's also consular

services but the the focus is on making this economic relationship grow >> makes a lot of sense. Uh talking about economic relationship Netherlands has been investing into India as quite a significant partner as well. Uh what are key areas or sectors I know you focused on agri health water semiconductors as well but what are some of the most prominent ones if you had to take a bet for the next 18 months which are the sectors which would be a top priority for you? So what I see in South India especially what Dutch companies come here for is talent, talent, talent. Um

we have a severe labor shortage in many sectors in the Netherlands. Um immigration is not encouraged. So companies are looking for other solutions, right? So if I would have to look for something, it's it's technologies that can help the Netherlands um grow in a sustainable way without uh having too many people added to the labor force uh having to move to the Netherlands. >> Right? >> Uh so we are looking at innovation in METTE for example as I said the Netherlands has a very strong ecosystem

in semiconductors there. India is starting up now. So there is opportunities um that India takes some of the technologies that we have developed in the Netherlands while we can benefit from talent uh in India because also in semiconductors there is a severe shortage of labor. Um the Netherlands is after the United States of America the second largest uh agriculture exporter in the world. Um the US a big country the Netherlands a very small country and yet uh we are the second largest exporter. Again there we have a lot of technologies. Um nowadays

we are not trying to sell our products in food or you know food products. We are trying to sell our technology and trying to combine it with local solutions to uh improve food security in other countries and for the world as a whole. Not only producing more food but also healthy food, more sustainable food, climate resistant food. Um so there also that these are opportunities that we think India has uh potential uh for yeah for both countries. >> That's fantastic to hear. uh since you spoke about uh certain key areas that you think has a lot of potential for

Indians to leverage Netherlands technologies or capabilities that they that are already being built. I'm assuming sustainability is another very important factor as well. Contrary of flipping that question, if I were to ask you, what are the strengths in India that you see apart from talent? If there are any sectors that you think uh which which you would encourage founders of from these sectors to actually uh you know have a stronger partnership with Netherlands. >> Are you talking about founders from the Netherlands coming to India?

>> The other way around, founders from India partnering with Netherland on certain technologies or certain sectors. >> Yeah. So, so um one of the things that India has an advantage uh is um apart from the talent is also um the cost to innovate. Uh I was in Chennai last week. I visited a Dutch company there that has a like a technical office. Not many people just like 35 40 people, right? Um but they have been able to develop their own software so that they no longer have to rely for their solution on external software. They have a dedicated software

and they've created this motherboard that they can introduce in the technical system. Uh all of that was developed in Geni in 6 months at relatively low cost. Um and that is a benefit that India offers. So smart solutions as I was talking about we have uh a labor shortage in the Netherlands but also um our grid uh is congested due to the sudden uptake of electric vehicles, solar energy uh so it's difficult for new companies to get access to the grid. So solutions that can help uh save electricity but also smart grid solutions right uh yeah India has you

know it's it's quick to to innovate there's a lot of smart people and it's relatively cheap to to work on these solutions and I think that's a real benefit that India offers uh that that the Netherlands can make use of >> sure I mean India is known as a land of frugal innovation right uh even if you talk about ISRO and space techch uh you know once touted as as a cartoon EST if I'm not wrong by New York Times as bulockart carrying missiles right or rockets and thrusters today is one of the top most uh research organization when it comes to space tech in the world

right and the cost of doing this is sometimes much lower the cost of making movies in US right so we've been very successful at frugal innovation as a country that's something that I I think I I deeply am fond of and relate with in India uh but when it comes to talent density and you spoke spoke about talent density as well uh combined with frugal innovation. Are there any academic pursuits that you think are interesting from a India standpoint and in South India specifically would you see any partnerships uh going in that direction as well?

>> Um yeah quickly to talk about space because you mentioned it um we're actually quite lucky in in our consulate in Bangalore that one of our innovation officer is is specifically focusing on the space sector. There's only a few missions in the world that have space as a as a sector and and we are one of them because I think the potential is is clear here. Uh and that also stimulates uh a university like the technical university of Delft which has a very good aerospace uh sector. Uh they have close collaborations here. Um I had just joined here three years ago and we had a

space delegation come to to Bangalore. Uh so that's that's a good sector. Um in the broader sense um we are we have seen now recently um a more formalized collaboration between the six IITs in India and uh some of our technical universities in the Netherlands with a specific focus on semiconductors. As I say I mean the Netherlands has a unique ecosystem on semiconductors with the whole sector. It's it's I mean people talk to me about our famous company ASML which is producing the most the adv the machines that make the most advanced chips right

>> but ASML is at the top of a pyramid of more than 300 companies uh that is a unique ecosystem and there we rely a lot on Indian talent so by having our technical universities work together with the IITs uh hopefully stimulating uh crossover uh talent from India but also the technology that we have developed in the Netherlands and the the the wide ecosystem of companies that we have uh also benefiting India's starting up uh semiconductor system and and and ecosystem and uh striving to produce the first chips uh made in India uh and and I think there's a a good collaboration

for both sides in that no for sure uh you know since you've spoken about this as well I wanted to touch touch upon a fact about semicon the semiconductor industry uh Karnataka has been pushing a lot of initiative towards semiconductor initiatives uh even including clusters like Mysuru uh now that you have you know seen how the whole of South India is evolving for example we have always known as Terminadu as a manufacturing hub right uh how do you see different states play out when it comes to semiconductors today >> yeah so I think over time there will be

a little bit of uh specialization um we had a few colleagues uh from the Netherlands um visiting us a few weeks ago to specifically look at opportunities for Dutch companies in the semiconductor sector and um when speaking to some counterparts here they said um something similar happened with the um car manufacturing right >> uh it started up in India and now there's a few clusters uh spread out over the country I think in semiconductors you will see something like that with a place like Bangalore for example in chip design Honestly, the

talent is already here. It's already happening here. >> Um manufacturing um maybe not so much in Karnataka but maybe more in Gujarat um where climatic conditions are also uh good. It will work out in the end. Um at the moment it's still a bit in flux and and states are competing with each other which makes it sometimes a bit difficult for smaller countries like us because we cannot just uh talk to all these different states and I mean for me it doesn't matter where a company goes if it's in Karnataka or if it's in Tamil Nadu if they think it's the best fit we

will try to advise them uh but in the end it's it's their decision but I think over time you will see some clusters coming up and and um production will not necessarily be in the same place where chip design is. Um and and I mean people think of these huge fabs but it's not only that it's also innovation. It's also clusters around a place like for example Indian Institute of Science here in in Bangalore. Um it's it's companies that come with smart new solutions. Uh it's some of the products that are required as inputs. uh all of that will find its place uh over time in in a

location that is suited for it that has the capacity to do it and sometimes where the incentives are right but it's not only about the incentives it's it's the broader picture >> it makes a lot of sense in fact every state has a different policy with the incentive structure like you just mentioned uh Karnataka has been leading the race when it comes to let's say GCC's yes >> Tamil Nadu is more focused on manufacturing as well but Karnataka is picking up andhra Pradesh is of course showing a lot of uh intent there in that

space too right the policies have changed quite significantly under the new chief minister who's been around of uh maybe a couple of years now uh which all states are under your purview when you talk about south India >> so south India is um mostly the five southern states um of course with Karnataka we are here so this is where we are most active because we are here on a daily basis Right. >> But Tamil Nadu, Kerala as well and then Telangana and Andhra Pradesh. But we have a Netherlands business support office in Hyderabad.

>> So we have some colleagues who are working there not in a diplomatic mission but more in a trade office that help Dutch companies do business in mostly Telangana and Andra. They do that from Hyderabad. So my my my daily focus is mostly on Karnataka, Tamadu and and Kerala. Um and then we see that companies make informed choices. Um Philillips has been in Bangalore for more than 25 years. They have their largest innovation center in the world here in Bangalore. They are committed. They say this is where we need to be. This is where the

people that we need are present uh the most. So so they have just opened this new Philips Innovation Campus on the airport road. this huge uh huge building. >> Um and we have a new company Adyen which is a fintech uh company for online payments also also uh payments in shops. Um and they have set up their newest tech hub in Bangalore >> with a specific they you know they said okay we need to be there. Um however there's also other companies Hinekin has set up a GCC in Hyderabad. Um, Shell also is in Hyderabad sorry is in

Chennai. So it it depends on the company what are they looking for? What is the the people they are looking for? What is the ecosystem they are looking for? But South India of course is uh yeah is an economically strong region that attracts a lot of foreign investment from the Netherlands. Uh this >> very true in fact a lot of GC is now setting up shop in Hyderabad as well as another very strong economic corridor coming up there as well. And when you talk about Shell, I think that brings me uh to an interesting example that I've seen that you know companies for

different kind of talent objectives have set up shop in Chennai and Bangalore as well. >> Yes, Shell is one of them. >> Shell has one of them in Bangalore as well. A large office near the airport. >> So they do innovation >> in Bangalore. In Bangalore >> and they have a GCC like structure in Chennai. >> In Chennai. Very interesting. uh your uh role uh also is to advise a lot of CEOs for example from Netherlands as well right uh and when you talk to some of them could you give us example of one

quick 60-cond pitch that you would make to them you know when they're thinking about setting up shop in India what would what would you say in favor of India or southern India specifically in any of these states >> yeah so so as I as I started saying my main pitch is talent uh in the Netherlands big companies, small companies, they struggle to attract a sufficient talent, right? >> We have a housing crisis. Um, so it's not so easy to bring foreign workers from from outside to the Netherlands.

Also a politically sensitive issue. So I tell companies, okay, if you if you need talent, if you want to grow, if you need engineers, come to South India, they are here. Um so yeah we have big companies but we also have smaller companies who get introduced to India because uh an Indian student who studied at one of our technical universities did an internship with them >> you know got to talk to the the people in the company and say oh you struggled to get you know engineers to to put solar how to design how to put solar panels on the roof in the Netherlands.

Well, I can set up a an office with people for you in Bangalore or in Chennai or in Hyderabad and I can do it for you. Um, so talent is really the main thing. Uh, the other thing I already mentioned the cost to innovate uh is is relatively uh is relatively low and and things can be done quite fast in that sense. Uh so that's another advantage that you can try things out here uh that might be easier because there's more talent here than in the Netherlands where it's so scarce. You want to know that what people are doing is really the right thing. So so these

are two of the main things I would I would tell Dutch companies. Um however um we also see that India is not normally number one in many um many Dutch companies minds. India is a big country uh a bit challenging complex to do business especially for Dutch startups that have such limited time and and resources. Are we going to put our eggs in the India basket or are we putting it in the US basket? >> Uh and then you see that they often choose US or or other known closer markets rather than a country like India. Um so my my aim is also to bring

more people here >> to see what is going on to see the developments in India to see the opportunities here um because in my experience once people have been there they leave with a different >> view of what India is and what the potential of India is >> right I think there's a lot of impact of media as well right uh and how a particular country is represented globally uh I I personally feel that India is chaotic But there's a lot of order in that chaos as well. Right? If you go deeper into

that chaos, it it leads to a lot of opportunities. That's what my personal feeling is. And of course, I could be biased being an Indian. Uh but that's what I've seen. And it's also interesting uh you know given that you know you have stayed in so many different places. You've led missions in so many different uh countries from Nigeria to Middle East in Kuwait and so on and so forth. How uh do you see now that you've spent three years in Bangalore and in India as well? uh what is your take now on ease of doing business? Has it changed over the last 3

years? Are where are the rooms to improve? >> So um India is improving. India is improving in in ease of doing business. Um states are competing with each other. I think that helps a kind of internal um process to to get better. Um India's also fast uh increasing in the uh rank of innovations right >> uh so so we see really uh the future in that sense is in India if you see how fast the the innovations are going uh and how fast India is climbing in the international rankings on innovation >> right

>> um what is different from how Dutch companies look at it um what I see is there's a lot of competition ition in um in offering incentives, incentives in land in uh these type of things. While for Dutch companies, it is much more important that there is a you know a system in place that that is relatively stable and that there is access to the courts if you have a problem that is fast that these issues are resolved fast. India can improve on that in that sense to to to um to create a stable environment uh

that people feel confident okay if I invest now in 10 years the system will be still in place and and I can do what I want uh and these one-off incentives are nice but but yeah not sometimes not enough to um >> overturn the decision >> to overturn the decision and um some other countries in in Asia uh are competing also in that sense. So so we see Dutch companies also moving to countries like Vietnam or Malaysia, Thailand. >> Um so there's also international competition. It's not only within the

states in India but there's also other countries around that that v for investments. Yeah, >> makes a lot of sense. Uh but thank you so much for sharing those perspectives as well, right? because I think uh every country needs to uh look into how do they improve uh various aspects of doing business and since we spoke about innovation index I think that's where I've been following it since 2015 at least I think in 2015 India was ranked around 85th in the world to the recent ranking in 2025 was about 36 if I >> yeah something like that

>> yeah so it's improved quite significantly year on year that I've been noticing that right uh well that's good to hear uh I want to also talk to you about this when a Dutch company sets up shop in India or is about to set up shop in India. What do the first 180 days look like? What are the key things that you would tell a Dutch company when you come in? Do you hire first uh entity setup? What are key things that you think they should be doing immediately after coming in? >> Yeah. So, so I'm I mean we're only an outside advisor on that. But what is

important is that you have somebody here who can help you set up or set up your company, right? Either you hire somebody or you partner with somebody but somebody who knows their way, who knows how to set up your company, >> right? >> Um and that sometimes can be quite challenging, you know. Um even though um India is at the forefront of uh digital government, >> there is still also procedures that require um specific paper. It all has to be signed. It cannot be electronically

stamped. If you have people sitting in the Netherlands, >> papers have to be sent back and forth. So it's good to have >> somebody here. You call it a fixer, you call it a I don't know a manager. I I don't know how you need somebody who is going to do this and and set up this company. I think uh to do business that's that's important here. >> Are they are they incubators in India who who help you with some of these jobs because incubators typically work with very early stage idea stage. I mean we

don't have so much experience with very early stage Dutch companies coming to India and and setting up here. >> So I whenever I visit places here in India incubators they always say oh you know there's space here if there's startups coming from the Netherlands we can host them. >> Unfortunately we're not getting so many startups from the Netherlands here. >> Um that's something we are trying to work on. So now we are trying to think of how can we maybe bring some of the Dutch incubators to India to get a better understanding and and connect

both ecosystems. Um also to to maybe tie some of the startups, you know, an Indian startup and a Dutch startup together. Um but we don't have so many. So the the companies that we get are usually more >> mature uh companies that that expand into India. >> Makes sense. Makes sense. In fact, uh you know, you have the Indian Netherlands joint innovation programs as well, right? In uh some areas. Uh can you talk to us a little bit about that and you know how that is creating

impact? >> So um we have um in a number of countries in the world we have an innovation network. India is one of them. So these are people from our ministry of economic affairs who are really looking at um deep innovation. Um I have two people in my office here in in Bangalore uh with a focus on space as I already said uh but also life sciences and and health and now we are expanding a little bit for example also into AI >> um and and what we see is um for the coming period what we are looking for um

next year we hope to have a mech innovation mission from the Netherlands coming to India um probably to Delhi, Hyderabad and Bangalore. Um because as I said we have a shortage of labor, we have a shortage of nurses, doctors. Um so technology that can help make our nurses and doctors more efficient with faster diagnosis, better diagnosis, uh better care. Um uh that can really help us. So so that's one of the areas we are looking at. >> Another innovation mission for next year is more in a sustainability. you talk about sustainability that's very

important for us. Um so we are expecting a um circular and green chemistry um mission for example recycling plastics uh all these type of technologies um what is happening here and how can the Dutch innovation ecosystem connect to that >> and are you seeing these kind of uh interesting uh R&D being done and IP being created only in tier one environments let's say like a Bangalore or Chennai or Hyderabad or are you noticing that you know there are interesting companies because I have heard for example in Karnataka in the

city of Mangalore or Mangaluru uh there's a lot of work happening on circularity specifically around uh seawater treatment right or ocean water treatment where a lot of uh landfills are happening right and you are seeing a lot of garbage waste water affluent plants being created or technologies being created to solve for those crisis as well do Is there any interesting story that you can share uh of collaboration like that? >> I'm not sure about collaboration. I do see that there's opportunities uh also in in smaller cities. Um I was in in uh

Mangalore last year. Exactly. Uh some some um IP that was there on recycling of plastics. >> Um I've recently been in Madurai. I was in Tutigorin in Chennai. Uh sorry in in Tamadu. Um yes there is interesting things happening the struggle for me as a as a government representative okay if we are bringing a delegation to India it's usually 5 days uh where do they go uh then it's usually easier to stay in the big economic centers because that's easier to connect that's where we are based that's where we have our network and the tier 2 tier three cities are a

little bit more difficult next week There is a private mission not the government involved in that but a private mission of Dutch companies uh in various fields going to cobatore, Bangalore and Kochi. >> So dedicated missions they have seen opportunities there. Um so uh that yes there is opportunities but for us it's also a logistical struggle. it's easier to do things from where you are or where you have a better network and that's better connected also to the Netherlands with international flights and things like that. Unfortunately due to time

constraints that's always uh that's always our problem as well. So hopefully we invite people from other places who are then willing to travel to either Mumbai or Bangalore or Chennai and and have meetings there. >> No, that makes a lot of sense. In fact, I think Coin Matur as a cluster or a hub is also getting better by the day. I think there's a lot of new initiatives coming there uh with a lot of policy changes happening to infuse capital to build that infrastructure including international flights they have international airport but I don't think

so it's to all a lot of different cities and countries but I think that's also improving by the day >> yeah so that's that's one of the great things I mean I've been in India now for for more than 3 years >> um you really see the infrastructure improving uh all the time uh okay last time I was in combat uh the airport experience was not the best I've had in in uh in India. But you see because the cities are growing so fast that that this infrastructure gets um a bit overused. So after investments and it it will be better and you see that these

investments are are taking place. Uh so that's very interesting to see this dynamic of of growth that's happening all around you on a daily basis. >> Makes a lot of sense. In fact, uh I think if any of our any of my friends in the in the aspirator space or talent sourcing space, innovation sourcing space are watching us right now, this is a very strong cue that you know maybe you should reach out to you to to talk about you know how you can help in collecting some of these startups from different clusters and bring them together you know for a conversation. I

think that would be helpful. >> Yeah. >> Um very interesting. I also wanted to talk about this right you you would have spoken about agri water and health met as well could you give us one interesting case study or a story that's close to your heart about innovation where there's some collaboration as well >> so what we've been working on for the past 3 years since I was here is to look for um collaboration in the high-tech green houses sphere in uh in India um we had a public private partnership between private sector in the Netherlands and

the government to try to bring a number of companies together to India and showcase what we would have to offer and it's not for all of agriculture but for a specific niche u premium products um we think we have technology that could uh that could be beneficial to to a country like uh like India for example in strawberries um or you know some of these crops set up a greenhouse close to a logistical hub because it can be done in principle everywhere. Um and then uh these green houses make it possible to produce pesticide-free high quality constant quality uh because

they don't grow in soil. It's it's hydroponics. Um and that that production uses 95% less water than if you grow an open field. Solutions like this can help big companies, you know, big supermarket chains or nowadays e-commerce uh set up something uh to a hub, right? >> And you have fresh strawberries and okay, it's not the price might be higher because it's a big investment. Um but with the volumes >> in India even in premium products that could be that could be an example and that could really help towards a more sustainable food chain as well. Got it.

Makes a lot of sense. Uh in fact, if I flip the other way around, I'm just thinking out loud. Uh they are, you know, different countries are talking about being a launchpad for Indian companies or Indian founders in EU as they start to scale up. uh how how does Netherland become one of the top places for Indian founders to partner with to eventually expand their capabilities across EU as a as a market expansion capability. >> Yeah. So we think we are uh we are a very good uh place to to start your European expansion. um some of the

advantages in the Netherlands, we're a very innovative um country uh always highly ranked in the innovation index um where um private sector and academia work closely together. There's there's this really this uh connection between government and private sector and academia. Um we have the Netherlands foreign investment agency. I have two of their colleagues working in my office who try to um um look for high value companies that we will actively support to come to the Netherlands. So companies that contribute something to our economy.

>> Um we have a highly skilled workforce. Uh almost everybody speaks English. Uh that makes it easy. Um we have very easy processes of uh getting getting the right permits. the the biggest challenge is always to get the bank account but even there we have some solutions now also with Indian banks that have a European presence and uh to see how that works. Um uh so yeah we have you know startup visa we have highly skilled migrant visa um that that we can enable to to have people come to the Netherlands and and set up their business and work from there. Uh

Netherlands is very well connected to to a big part of Europe. Um Rotterdam is a global hub, a global gateway to Europe. Um so the you know that's a some of the good advantages and and we have a lot of people from Indian origin who have been living in the Netherlands for a long time who've come recently. Uh so uh there's even good Indian restaurants nowadays almost everywhere to be found. So in that sense uh very welcoming I think. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. I think that that's very good advice as well for or perspective for Indian founders. In

fact, if I if I have to deep dive a little bit more on that, if there's a startup founder from Bangalore, I'm sure a lot more startup founders from Bangalore would also be looking at this conversation. Uh if they want to take the first step to partner with Netherlands innovation network in India in Bangalore, how do they approach you? What's the first step and what does what do the next six months entail for them? >> Yeah, so reach out to us. I mean uh we have a website that will get you uh an email address and a phone number. Reach out uh then we will see it usually works

best if you send an email because then immediately we have the the request clear um we can share uh with our colleagues in my office but of course we're part of this much wider network with the embassy in New Delhi with the consulate general in Mumbai and we have expertise in various fields uh here in innovation. Uh so that's really if you want to innovate together um if you are already confident of your product and you want to see hey would this work in uh in Europe in the Netherlands um and if it's an interesting solution my colleagues from the Netherlands foreign

investment agency can help can help connect to the Netherlands can help connect to some of the regional development uh organizations that we have can say okay you are uh working on something we think this region in the Netherlands is best because we have a cluster of these companies. If it's space for example uh the European space agency has estag there's a whole park there but okay if you are in uh life sciences and health maybe then it's led if you are in semic to the right um organizations to help uh Indian founders find their way in the

Netherlands um we do that for as I said high value companies companies that really have something new to offer >> uh for the Netherlands Got it. Makes a lot of sense. In fact, for people who are watching us, this is the website that you can access uh you know where you'll get all the information on how to reach out. Uh you you interestingly you both mentioned about Rotterdam being the gateway to uh Europe at large right uh are there any interesting initiatives being planned between the port activities uh you know there's a lot of activity happening in

India as well Chennai and a bunch of others. uh are you involved in some of those conversations about exchange of ideas, development around these uh port related uh you know machinery and activities and so on and so forth. >> Yes. So uh ports and and shipping uh is an important area that we also work on. Uh we're very happy that uh since um since this year I think or last year but I think this year the port of Rotterdam has a representative in India um as a basis to to strengthen this relation. What we are looking for is also um greening of ports,

>> uh greening of shipping. Um the Netherlands has also identified green hydrogen as an essential component in our energy transition especially for heavier industries. Uh and we see good potential here in India. We see that developments here are moving ahead maybe faster than in some other parts of the world. So actually green hydrogen is also one of the the technologies that we really are looking at to India to help to develop together. Um we had a visit of some of the public port representatives to the port of Rotterdam earlier this year on this greening of

ports and greening of shipping. Um we are working with other countries in the world to set up green shipping corridors. Who knows that could be another way to explore. uh our minister for infrastructure and water was in Mumbai last week uh at the India maritime week someus were assigned uh there is growing collaboration in that field as well so if uh there's interesting founders and interesting startups you know in in this field uh please reach out to us or to our colleagues at our consular general in Mumbai because shipping is uh a sector

that they are coordinating for the network >> makes a lot of sense uh you know there's a there's a lot of uh past historic background that you also have having worked across the globe right any key leadership lessons that you would want to share with the young founders in India who can who can you know learn from your experiences and when I said experiences difficult ones you know the challenging ones that you know you've been able to navigate successfully >> yeah so I'm I mean I joined the the

government immediately after I graduated from university so I I'm not a private sector person, >> right? >> Um uh what I always look at what for me is is very important that um people in my office are happy um get a lot of freedom to do what they want to do. Um, so that's that's one of my my main things is not to be a micromanager, but let people uh develop themselves, try something and and very often uh that works out, right? >> Because it's a passion. It's what's

something they believe in and test that out. So that's a little bit my philosophy in managing my team. um not to micromanage but to let people come with ideas and pursue them and of course from my perspective try to make sure that they succeed with advice and steering them in the right way but also having people grow and and develop in a in a very positive atmosphere. >> Makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for sharing that as well. Uh I think I can attest to the fact that you know when I met you uh a few weeks back uh you were very approachable and you it

was a very interesting conversation that we had back in the day and that's why I thought that you know the the listeners should or viewers should be able to have a deep dive into some of these conversations and get our understanding and learnings from you. Uh what's one of the hardest decisions that you've had to take uh with after coming to India? after coming to India. Yeah. So, so some of the things that um that's also a bit of a cultural difference. Um after one year that I was here, India was um chairing the G20 and our prime minister um decided after the G20 summit in Delhi

to come one day to Bangalore with a trade mission because it had been cancelled some years before. Um and then you have the Dutch very organized, very advanced, planned uh side that wants to know the exact program weeks in advance who is going to be exactly uh and then you have the Indian situation where things remain unclear until the end and you still have to take decisions. Okay. I think yeah we we we we hope it will be like this. um in the end everything works out. So [laughter] that's also that's that's the lesson I learned not only in India but also in

some of the other places. The Netherlands is the outlier with our uh planning and and and everything set in stone weeks in advance. How do you deal in a situation where things remain unclear and you have to change the schedule and and different people will be there? Nothing goes as you planned it but in the end it always works out. not not as high stakes but I think sometimes navigating through the Bangalore traffic also teaches you that. >> Yes. Although if you have the prime minister then that's not so difficult because you get uh you get an escort and

uh that's easier. No. Yeah, of course Bangalore traffic is um yeah infamous uh but I I also lived in a in Cairo in Egypt. It was similar there. Uh but even there a Dutch company Arcadis is trying to use AI uh to to help a little bit uh decongest uh Bangalore roads. Um yes they are making progress but because so many new vehicles get added to the road every year that progress might not feel like it but they show that uh you know uh time per kilometer is slowly going down. >> Um so yeah even there we're trying to to do something to uh to help uh to help

Bangalore. Yeah >> that makes a lot of sense. In fact, uh if I'm not wrong, Netherlands is one of the first countries to have policies around EVs uh in the country as well, right? Uh could you could you also just talk to us a little bit about that? >> Yeah. So, so um EVs everything to do with with Yeah, we call it decarbonization of transport is relevant for us. Uh the Netherlands uh has a very dense network of charging st stations. Um and and you see that EV uh uptake was rather quick. Okay, now it's stalled a little bit but still um in the

Netherlands people don't have charging stress unless they go on holiday and then they have to look okay where where am I going outside of the country where can I charge uh so I think we have a good advantage in in charging infrastructure. uh where we see that India could lead the world is more in two-wheeler electric two-wheelers um sir >> we encouraged we try to encourage some standardization for example in the plugs I don't think that's been taken up yet but if you have a standard that would really help the broader uptake of of

things right >> uh and and India has so many two wheelers uh we see that this could really be a field that that India leads worldwide makes a lot of sense. >> But again, solutions in charging, in charging systems, but also in in other decarbonization of transport, of shipping, uh trucks, uh all of this is uh uh really something that in the Netherlands we we are looking for. >> Fantastic. I I did touch upon this even a few years back at G20. I was one of the speakers at the G20 as well and I

did touch upon how important it is like you mentioned decarbonization. The topic was around sustainability and innovation, sustainability. There's so much happening. There's so much more that needs to happen in the space as well. But so so amazing to get these perspectives from you. I want to get into a quick rapid fire as well before we say bye to our consumers. >> So and of course you you you have to rush out as well. So So let me talk to you about you know get a few questions out there and maybe get some rapid answers from you.

>> I'll do my best. Yeah. >> Thank you. So the first one is one KPI you check first thing on Monday. >> Yeah. So that's happiness of my staff. Honestly, uh if people are not happy in their job, uh they're less effective. So, uh I really like to make sure that my people are are happy at the office. >> Great. First check box, which is great. Boss tick pilot. You would green light tomorrow with one crew. Which sector? >> Yeah. So, that's difficult. There's various sectors medical technologies um maybe also uh in agriculture here

horiculture growing of healthy crops healthy foods this would be uh two areas that I think uh there could be a lot of progress here. Yeah. >> If you think about culture and tradition in India what is the first thing that comes to your mind? >> Yeah. So it's I mean it's a much bigger thing here than than I think in the Netherlands. I mean we're of course a much smaller country, a much more homogeneous country, although maybe not everybody in the Netherlands agrees, but India so diverse. There's so so many different customs, different holidays.

Uh it takes some time as a foreigner to to get used to that. Um but uh it's also fantastic to see uh the relationship that people have to this to this culture of where they're from. Yeah. >> Fantastic. Uh if Dutch founders had to hire one role first in India, what role role do you think it would be? >> Yeah. So something like a fixer, somebody who who helps you and and knows how to find the way? >> Makes a lot of sense. Netherlands to India, one tech the corridor should prioritize this year. >> Yeah. So we are we are prioritizing uh

met but also uh everything to do with green hydrogen. >> H one policy change that would unlock the next $1 billion in corridor trade. >> Um hopefully a free trade agreement between the EU and uh and India that would help. Uh otherwise you know easier uh customs procedures here in India. Uh I understand India wants to make in India but to make in India sometimes you also have to bring things in from outside uh and that's still sometimes an obstacle for for many companies. >> Makes a lot of sense. Green deal of the year whether we want you think water

reuse is a bigger thing or industry industrial energy efficiency. Yeah, we haven't talked much about water yet, but uh uh I would probably say industrial energy efficiency because water is a complicated topic that's not so easily solved. >> H all right. Uh biggest strength of India for Netherlands. >> Talent. Talent. Talent. >> Talent. When you think about innovation, what's the first word that comes to your mind? >> Sustainability. Because for us, innovation

has to lead to to a more sustainable future for everybody. >> Fantastic. One last question. Would it be filter coffee from Bangalore or Hanakin from Netherlands? >> Yeah, unfortunately I'm not the biggest fan of of South Indian filter coffee. I love Indian food. I love a South Indian breakfast but then with a black coffee. So in this case I would say a hineken but maybe brewed in the UB brewery in my source. So it [laughter] still comes from Karnataka. >> All right. Thank you so much for for sharing such candid perspectives and

sharing so much of insights with the viewers today and for the viewers who are watching uh or you know listening to this conversation. I would encourage you to go and check out the different sectors of collaboration youth has very kindly shared a lot of these important nuggets of information. Maybe you can have a look at it and figure out a way how you can tap into the the Netherlands innovation network as well and grow from there on. Thank you so much for taking our time. >> Thank you for having me. Thanks. >> Thank you. Thanks.

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